so i just want to introduce you your new board the boards transition transition the couple of weeks ago but really there's an in person meeting all day board meeting wanna quite before products are and the new and the old fort meade and so really coming out of water "'cause" one then you board takes over so we're going by alphabetical in the middle sort of photographing you has you watch him is a manual a busty known for clutter among other things i i next is john read it who is known we're accessibility i i i there are her favourite colour you stevie deep purple alphabetical last and coming so last same alphabetical order i should have yes i should mention that a many well a is us secretary of the organisation again and then joanie is now vice president alright need to the for this year and taking on the very sought after position of tries or is it katerina for a similar okay hua we contribute in many ways including documentation and her hacker chickens on the end is toby miller who is this so it's a little cut off but is the superhero this would interest you friends appeal recently and does tons of work with the membership many and we have are returning to the board and serving another year as president andreas nielsen have you noticed that he really likes birds new the more this year we have a long time contributor tick you know so your am wrong krishna i'll say no more i and also need this year to the board is marinas ratings guy who is known for bringing a lot of austin you contributors signal did somebody want this more do you just want to keep seeing this i was wondering how like for singing on the look that was this is a it wanna be a little higher it's and i wanna stay at thank you it's you see floppy and processor and also some we can so he's not here so you gets parentheses for having served that you know in the past year or years it's a it actually is a lot of work to be a board member and i think i when you see them you should thank them so i have a couple questions but let's just opened things up right away go ahead and ask we dare you what's with the total up to talk who i remembered we decided that it should be the port bites back no that was not my suggestion i think actually was talents more interesting in curing a i think it's inspire you to get the board to pay back can everybody hear that word where you know people talk without my okay it will be better do we do we have another mike that's running or okay so so you guys have less like and i'll stand here we can all share so who well so that's a question good morning the sue be in particular the full lost three uses so we are the be all the saw still running slowly over jean the awards what else board on you most you to should course about that much from the more from the marketing okay you don't want me to answer that question because an on the marketing team and i'm known for not being a marketing person no i i'm that that's why somebody on the market seen should actually and on the board should actually answer the question you know one meta okay okay so the question is what is a board for the past three years the last year you okay well i can tell you well you know as i said in my talk sorry there when we attend anyway i am so for the last year i personally has had to do lot of the outreach within can so lot of it is so as when so it started from three point O on words so let me let me step back when we did three point we didn't have any average for there was nothing we had no infrastructure are anything like that to sort of soften the shock right and one of the things we've done is actually create that infrastructure so we had we had a number things we did one I R C name space on free knows consolidate underground so can is a that name space was is under our control right so we can control the message and control the channels are creators and reports like i hate you know more something like that second we created the google plus pages that the facebook pages and be assigned people to monitor them weekly community pages we had also we have also created forums so basically we created a presence the google plus especially has been pretty good because when we first started there were no developers or anything like that so now what we had is are these and google plus we have developers engage with users and ask at answering questions people like florian have actually even written code that pose posing on their answering people so we we've gotten to the state where defending gonna has become a lot easier in and if you if you look on read it or anything like that when it when it grown thread is there a usually used to be me a couple other people subtitles all the bidders would jump at especially an L the view and we would we will engage but now we have users coming up saying i don't know what you guys talk about i like and very so that i is changing in terms of what people think of us we still have a lot to do it's always a continual process to making converse with our with our users right so so that's so i would say are situations improved a lot a and we have infrastructure now to really engage in our users especially with insect that forces when they don't terminal thing came out i think we have about fairly well we post on google plus we went be engaged in our read it where it happened it except that so we it's been it's been we were able to contain when something happens i would say i'm not on the fourth but i can see a lot of the board actually over the last year the board was was very proactive about assigning resources to help support marketing team which is helped a lot the marketing team was able to have a how fast which helps you know sort of distill some of the messaging that we want to get across from you know and also is sort of helping with you know the resources and infrastructure to encourage regular meetings of the marketing meeting the marketing many needs every other week by phone and that really helps us be able to respond to some of us of the P R issues so there's a lot of that there's also the foundation supports travel for people to go to you don't to conferences which helps a lot and also pacer might time which you know is also very helpful in some ways for handling here and also as i was saying at the at the A G M having are you know having our campaigns be ideological of that is different the campaigns everything is different by the foundation board that has really helped a lot with P R issues when we launched our privacy campaign and we had a lot of people switch back to us and we got a lot of positive press so i think the more things that we can do you that attract positive attention to ask the better and at the borders in a good position to encourage those things and also to divert resources in areas that they think are important thing is we happen socially like produced product we've been trying to create they i guess we're trying looks like tried already you it's not this week coming out of this conference so you know we've been always the special been working extremely hard in communicating what's going on like water and things like that through various press releases so we're constantly trying to engage that way by communicating more aspersions or so our has been on the forefront of all about so no problem for us in a lot of conversation it seems the your answer to are we manage of the pure disasters basically better damage control or and more difference i wonder if from but i could see to other places first of all like maybe before the damage happens if we're taking certain decisions that are going to cost lots of damage perhaps if we could get an involved in a letter explaining that was to the community why we're doing this or even that take it a step further and maybe take some of the feedback we're getting and change how you know functions so not just like dealing with damage after the fact but you preventing and maybe even addressing some of the complaints instead of you like i mean it just in with actual action instead of just going into damage control mode what D does anyone on the board think that the board has a role in doing this so i think that social media presents in part answers that because on particular google plus but another channels like we so often repost some of the most interesting a blog posts by we did contributors is that it builds excitement at over to features and also gives a forum for discussion so i feel like a lot of the people who are in fact you know the active users who are full in a single button we also have a forum they're not just so you know it's not just the can owns account but it's also a known for and so i think our engagements there is also not just remedying the situation but it's also engage in people where is a feel that they're part of like known what's happening and can provide feedback early on what marina and so it it's also true we are part of in terms of trying to get out the message of what we're doing sometimes we can only be reactive in some cases because we don't have a single unified voice and we should what we can have it and we shouldn't have a single unified voice that everybody in the project goes through so sometimes stuff just happens what we can do as not as a board we can we can try to ask everyone to be mindful of their position in the project especially if there are like maintainers score maintainers or core contributors to the platform or the entire collection of projects a is gonna be mindful of their position there that every time they open their social media or are they open the block their logs to try to post or something what they say is no show us what they think but also reflects on can is a project so that is probably the most proactive thing we can do as a for ask so everybody to be mindful of that we don't want to have wouldn't want to continuously go around chasing people for writing lot post like this is the last product or everything is gonna be sorry staring into the abyss or something of that it's it it's not that we don't want people to right criticism of the project but the has to be constructive criticism well seventeen do you have a question on i inside the microphone and i can i and i mean i think so the flip side to that question and sort of what i'm hearing from rants question is also what can we do to help improve better communication within the project you know is sort of a you know i have a better public facing explanation sometimes when decisions are taken in to make sure that kind of communication is there how can we internalise some of the criticisms the receiving but i would sort of say so okay so it's a minor thing but i totally i totally got that but we are routinely criticised for example for removing features without consideration for and this is something that drives me it's something that i see everywhere and i think it's what so where that comes from this is actually legacy right so when we what you know want to go to we were early on project we didn't do any can we are reach so when we were already going through that whole face problem first eight releases of gonna to we were moving features but we never told them the context so why we're doing it so because nobody went in there and said publicly this is why we doing it those miss continue to perpetuate so lot of people who are saying you the removing features are actually people remembering gonna to i that's my i believe that's exactly web because we didn't do any committee management that time and i thought i know this because even when we're going to gonna to that you know twenty you know that you go on a on a on a social me is site like slashdot it's a same stop the same criticism was happening continuously on all of the i mean i'm one of those sites all the time and even in those days you would never think that gonna was a number one that's top even it and slashed at the case it was this is costly set of negativity sure the nautilus is in this interesting case i was just going to say that it's names to be more of a social problem that's actually members of a commute you do need to communicate more with each other and maybe actually say what they're going to do before they do it and that's something that each person needs to D on there and it's not something that we can force them to be we can ask people to do it but we can't force them because everyone's individual i mean if you if there's a project you're specifically interested then maybe should actually go and i can it and then you have a sane what's how it goes still have perhaps of the board feels that they should have a role and setting the tone for the culture of the project are influencing well we do represent the project because we've been very to then so i have from that view we can at least set that in some way but it's all we can do i think is just ask people to the else and each other well not necessarily well i was going to say slide is saying that we can mildly like what would be a be amount rolled model maybe and by i don't know communicating nicely also to the outside world trying to set you know positive examples for all follow project members i don't think "'cause" alright i don't think we can do a lot well off precise all we can take precise actions i think "'cause" we are but at least i see myself as someone that directs resources and makes i don't know decisions not necessarily hard technical decision decisions within the project but facilitates that the project works and so i don't know i wouldn't i wouldn't see myself as someone that goals straight i don't know onto these a social platforms and commuted to the users work on the problem facilitate but we just make to do next is that doesn't make sense okay we heard okay so one of the thing i gotta cough to suck okay so one of the things i think that is to me it's actually very fascinating problem that can has is that i mean you think about it were a bunch of individuals and a bunch of teens working pretty at on the bus late and yet somehow when you think about it we managed to pull off an entire major product on a perfectly well schedule you know six months every single semester for lack of a better word basis in at the doing it for god i don't even know how many years i've not been around you know since before you know i was here since two thousand five but we've been historically doing that were like a company and yep of course for the complete opposite of the company and so it's the outside world everyone is kind of looking at is at least in my mind i mean not exactly like for apple or microsoft word is be model with the thank and for not and still unanswered of rains of original question i think the board does have an active role but it's at the same level as the marketing team and is the design team and the accessibility meant a release team i think what you know that every can we try to have a foundation meeting a few people show up and then you know the border whoever posted it says and no one comes maybe not exactly and open foundation meeting but maybe what all of the individual teams need to do is have regular you know at least representatives like the board beeps with the design team and is you know the police teams present excessively teams present and we can all sit around and say you know what guys we're gonna remove the speech or from models and if that is the decision on that the people to make those decisions make well then okay the marketing team i need to do something or maybe you know we wanna have a discussion about okay well we can remove that for the geeks really want it maybe there you know we need to discuss because if we give the impression to the outside world despite the quality work that we produce that we are at it's you know a monolith the creature that's we're gonna see that's we're gonna be treated on slashdot and that's are gonna be treated on right it and but functionally we all know that we're not such a monologue well in terms of structure and i'm use pretty the flat so there is no it's a lot teams at the same so maybe we should increase the height i think i once i'm sorry but it but just of quickly followed what i'm actually saying the opposite but because we're because we are flat we all or individual little units need to talk together a lot more and coordinate our actions a lot more i think the board actually that i've actually responding to so is to make the board actually does have the ability to make some changes and this and i would just want to find out that it if you anybody any audience anytime has any suggestions for concrete action support you take email the board it's very easy to do and the board will consider all actions their email to it i think that a point that hasn't been made here is that the board has power to implemented a code of conduct or to change the code of conduct that we have already and that's something that maybe the board could evaluate responsive is this what are you going to do to make this happen well since i only just now kind of been listening really thought about it when i get back i guess this email the right down that i have an action item to email all the other team's and say you know you all agree and how often should we meet and where should we meet and what's are all gonna get on the same page so we can coordinate what happens a lot better than we are now training you think there are particular you know action items that should be taken in these meetings but the board now a trend says that you things chinese idea sounds wonderful so i and i well that's not accurate were that i don't know board can set the culture to be not too extreme to say that if we're gonna remove features that's fine but we need to have a public discussion before we do that so that it's not at least to the outside appearing like all of a sudden pattern on from nautilus are all of a sudden compact used on from nautilus and i know that there may be there may be some internal discussion going on within the team but from the outside even it if you're not on the team it's hard to it's hard to see that and it's hard to see that and it just it makes it gives the appearance that people are just removing things without a discussion i mean do we do we all spy i wonder why sh should we also have these countries when we add things right because that also cost the way and i knew like i think like one thing there is like real helpful is like winning it shorter probably and such as this conference right but also i mean does at least seven like if the release T right says like unfortunately we cannot release that then that is how it is right this a like this new version of this application cannot going to release just possible huh but what i'm what i'm saying is that like to some extent D board also exposes the house cannot take the technical decisions right that's bring them by los so it's kind of tricky not way and i also can to think of like to keep things simple right so i mean like we had discussion that announced and uncertain may always right where people one other and unlike it just exploded in discussion right so we you i recall like the last one here the board had to tell an individual to please come down or he or she would be down from the list so i guess that's that part of it but i also know that it's not exactly what you're asking for but we also need to be mindful of the fact that you know designed is the committee doesn't work real great so well we could have those discussions we you know we should be trusting people who are you know do in the design or people who are do any release or people who are doing the coding and you people who wants to participate in the discussions need to be a lot more involved than just kinda like you know have an L long form a but cool one some feature would as and i just would like to add that i mean this whole discussion is going on with the background that it's axiomatic that we going to and we're going to continue german features and that in fact we have remove features well i it's only in a lot i mean it's a new the last three years that with right with great default suspend confided with for moving pages and my opinion and my opinion i mean i mean moving see things from controls in the territory tall as norman features so that if you look at the actual number of stings a we have removed implement small and full of applications the reach the stuff has been moved around so what i'm saying is like can we stop talking about removing features and if we do okay talking about in these terms but if we do what's the longer product we trying to create where we can go back to the original perhaps going more try we have the default a great because that's that's version seems to be swamped you know why we have the destructible gravity them or switches i mean i don't think it's always been this way the composition what trying to create a product that is straightforward to use and we are into reading on what that might be that's right i really see that i truly believe that we have to stick with our design vision but i think we it's are role to communicate why we're making certain changes not only after people get really upset or angry but like beforehand so this is gonna happen this is what's coming and not just let people get really mad and upset and feel like they have been neglected or not but nobody bought about them on so that then we will say something then we're right up what most about it it's something is gonna land we usually know it's gonna land i mean in advance so i don't see any reason why we we would not have this conversation with the community before things happen so people can started anyway there's a bit of the danger there because when you open up that much you can really get bogged down by people who nitpick and i mean you don't want to console have a discussion i mean is our project with is the direction we're going when people complain there's a number of reasons behind why they complain it's sort of strange just by the amount of people or complain is actually power fairly small but there are a lot and they're consistent so and yes and lot of don't use gonna because they'll what i talk so this is comes from hours of conversations with these people i mean this is and this is by engaging and then i find out that it's been they were angry backing gonna to and they left that and they can see to get over the fact that that over the fact that somehow they've been betrayed i mean a lot of people who are complaining to be true but we only feel betrayed because nobody told you beforehand otherwise you wouldn't feel bit they betrayed that's what i'm saying down from the last couple of incidents that we have experienced i feel that people on com doll a lot after the reasons where were exposed and that the russian all of our decisions what was supposed on and they often filled more outraged by our lack of expulsion of those reasons of those does motivations and then by the actual removal of the feature they can of course take it's always gonna happen but if and i think people tend to forget faster if them the reasons are proposed so it's not always clear that the people using the group the people engage in those are actually users a using or software violating my on well i think you're right that there is there that does happen but i think what ryan was asking was more specific and not for you know not for the people more in using you know and i think that might be on it was sort of addressing you know that very same issue and i wonder is there something we can i mean i brought of the code of conduct because that's something that the board has control over you know is there some way to build in some kinds of procedures that require you know you some process of documentation whatever some something is impacted is it just me or is applicable we element materials to those to applaud doing homework properly because they actually like of them like blog quite a lot unlike upcoming changes right and i think it would be helpful to see similar things from under P developers so i agree like it's obviously good to get out i had of potentially controversial decisions and to do kind of engage with people one making those decisions and there's always a lot more but we could be during and we could always be better that's you know this is a free software project people come here to have to do good work to feel empowered to be able to do something and we don't have the kind of resources to do as much as we'd one i'd you know a custom get into this to be public relations people they get into the to them and i think we should and central design is an owl documentation writers and everyone else and i mean really need is more marketing resources so that we have like dedicated P L people who when they see like the there's a potential situation bring they can gonna get the story and talk to people and do all the work that's necessary i mean this is what happens in companies right this is how companies manage public relations a lot discounts and the idea that this is just some kind of marketing problem you know there are decision making processes to consider as well but and then when we have kind of hate marketing people phone i'm the situations like this are gonna arise i mean the market it seemed that we have a volunteers you know we have a limited amount of time we're not marketing professionals we do what we can try to do that changing the name of the marketing to do you know from passion are how are you to that is it is something like that it sounds like a really stay probably i mean that's generally what the product management comes and in some shape or form of the the some kind of liaison person and generally that's the role that i try to perform right like so i mean you know i'll i will just you know issues as the coming up and i know the right kind of the people who are working closely with design and development know about but then the question is what do you do about that because you know i'd i don't think i think even if we did let the marketing team no i'm not entirely sure that we have the capacity to do much about well mean that's what we already do with like you know myself from the two years and draw everyone else something we know what's going on i mean the information is that so so what idea we could do is maybe work a little closer to release team released team would know the set of features everything else and they could give us a heads up the release team has a very well defined like role in terms of not just deciding also speeding release unless the marketing that martin in paris and that's that i think what needs to happen is more people should follow their released i mean marketing design everybody should follow there really is the not be on the release think that's that would be kind of pointless but they should follow mark do you think it this is the release things this magical creature that lives in the forest and sometimes gets out of the forest and drops a steaming pile packages for distributions to pick up and make like gold out of it i know that's why i'm not i but D them it's not that mythical it's not it's a bunch of people actually running a bunch of scripts and fixing the issues that come up when building the collection projects days now they are human beings and they do human beings stuff so people should just talk to them read what they you're right in there you males it's not a high elevation so it's sometimes it's english is sent english as well so it should be read right and people should just follow there is a mainly space with public archives people can actually follow what happens so if you want to be involving the release the just paul the release stole then on actually i think it's a get suggestion evaluated just i think princeton same inspiration so i have to follow in terms of what do i have to read all the commit so for tweaked or left to follow all the projects that i think might remove features in future and it's only like six projects so just follow them nautilus the shame a schema changes that ceilings demon controls in the in the mailing list of audio and you could of although i do sometimes wonderfully secret I R C channels and i'm not privy to that like it's not that much work so we did we did have a notion of doing week we but that somebody would do weekly reports of what was going on various modules that could be somebody wants to volunteer doing something like that would help a lot for a lot of us we need somebody who can mangle those mangle those things and maybe that's what we are can get volunteers for to do is to do those reports right and i just i just is that what we hear is that we need more people fill in and please don roles and i'm just thinking and matt allen for years ago when we were both a now way to grant can area so you know in four years you can be alan and have chance if you know sorry if you start being a liaison between designers and marketing work between release team and marketing and we need more people fill in those roles and wanting to kinda you know is see what's going on and try to explain it we need more people to communicate we we've got a little bit far away from and now i've been trying to ask a question for a while but something happened about ten minutes ago i was talking about have the board has a role in setting the tone for the community influencing the culture and two members of the board in front of a room full of people basically said that people who criticise you know or you can use it but that's i mean i heard it industry and you use sort of implicitly agree that is a pretty radical interpretation of the subtext and i think you're absolutely wrong but this is what i heard i mean that suddenly how i took it and i think this is an attitude that pervades can home and i think it's to our hazard we too often dismiss are our detractors what i what i actually i i'm gonna stop line for myself because i actually said something like that but i said we should we should let people criticise number even inside and out but they should be mindful of their if they're in the can project they should be mindful that their words reflect on the overall project so it should be very clear about adding constructive criticism okay so i was going by people accurately wide-ranging okay so do you are telling me well okay so i had made a statement that lot of people who complain about gonna we're not gonna music right i said that because did a lot of times where i do i mean the people like am i engage them on a one to one basis and the number of forms so this is coming from an off the cuff remark this is right now okay show it's there's that's now i'm sorry i just repeating the questions you know like and then trying to thing that there are people who are complaining who left now and who are users of them you know like classical saying like i'm so and read you because i want your rights and like i see you around doing but i still believe in thing we have to get it right so i mean i mean like if you if you are really happy then you are just indifferent right so actually the fusion abusive relationship i don't want to phrase conversation all know in terms of that alright that is definitely not smile my intent i really don't so no so okay so there's a subtlety and that whole argument about whether other people have the right to complain if they're not using a stopper that that's not my intention i'm not i'm not saying that others cannot complain about the project i take when people criticise a take everything i take everything seriously regardless whether there from gonna we're not it's because everybody is a potential returnees do right so i'm just saying that when we're addressing problems that need to keep in mind that some of them it was specific to what are the honour was saying in the sense that when the air are boundary that and you're trying to have a conversation some of some of the conversation gonna have a sort of noise because there is a set that haven't forgotten as i said i was tucker better and they are just doing to have no intention to come back or anything but they cannot seem to get past that part i and there is a subset like that there's in fact there's a lot of reasons why people dislike you know there's from a variety of reasons there's a class of people who dislike you know because it's trying to be popular and it is just set of people who like having their own niche os and they want you keep it for themselves in the same vein they don't like princes more women joining the movement in the same sort of thing it's their necks this is what i've gleaned from having conversations with people like that it's sort of there's a certain psychosis and some of these so i'm not i know i guess i can sorta i usually can tell what's valid criticisms and what is not which is one what is noise to some extent just because i've been doing it for three years three four years so i do that personally because i know i am so when i'm when i'm when i'm out there doing it then things i say is said in a way that gives the impression they don't doesn't care whether unless you're user and i mean the words are not set that way so the moment project all out here and the a been going to go out of for ten years and i also use gnome by the time we had a F T P client embedded in the panel we had to shell embedded in the panel i'm still hating you all removing my favourite feature all time by the way i'm not going to tell you want to also but you remove it but the back and that i we look around and had a pretty clear vision statement for the know what like gnome application walls what was supposed to do in the form of the egg in the two point though there is it was pretty much the guiding document of the whole project what is can and then we got the three point though and we have a to have that interface that suppose to work and touchscreens that's supposed to is remove all the features and all the work on the three D graphics and so on and we are why do you why do you think i'm not mention to here but what i'm what i mean here is that we lost our mission statement we lost the guiding light that others see what are we trying to do i think ambitions chinese pretty damned clear we should make an operating system or an environment that is that i full to use a joy to use for the uses and it's free and it's open source and it's and it's a great user experience that is the mission has always been the mission i mean even gonna one point four we didn't make a project to make it so hard any possible to users to use their computers because we need people use and we like to impose misery on the people that use hours i'm some anything their hand thing right so i from what i understand from various from various comments for the vice people there is that communication problem and there is a lot of a single person that could coordinate various teams and you could in not impose but probably set a direction in the vision so should we allocate okay and we allocate some resources in the form of an office L C your normal or something like that god sorry project leader yes i don't i know i vote we bring chapel back and we have in like in the what we could ask mark i mean is already doing that for we can ask mark for the sorry but what should we nominate somebody days the sell well not the self appointed that foundation appointed a benevolent dictator for life of them what would that was said that who had the guts to say that i you do i you don't wanna be or that a really don't no i think that's not great idea at all i think it's it's good that we have various teams that are in bold in their specific areas they need to get better talking each other that's true but that's it we shouldn't have one person that gives okay so i i've been wanting to say a couple of things but the last question is related to one of things i wanted to say and it was you go of there is but it what we have in this is what i was saying that lance right we have a communication problem namely we are communicating amongst ourselves someone was saying i think was owl and that you know we are professional P R people but man i what can at our marketing team and they write a pretty darn professional and if we actually keep down in the loop and if we have to keep to police team i don't out alex to the really steamy the know about model is removing that feature mister can your so was that paid attention my question is that the release so i in the do some of the discussion was the release team you know if it the implication that a new say about the nautilus removal did you guys even know about that but well these figuring out the mic thank the other thing i wanted to point to point out to respond to i think i think it was probably on a set it but you know i mean something that i've been thinking about for awhile like them really been thinking about it is i'm sitting here it's like okay so this happened maybe after can online this definitely happened after can own to what we learned from that why do you can be number three this happened you know it's like it's we just keeps repeating itself so the next time we're gonna do you know when they don't for comes out this bloody well better not happen because we have been here you know it's like groundhog day that movie groundhog day when you wake up of thirty days the same stupid thing if we start all communicating now we all keep all of us in the loop and we can all be proactive instead of reactive would be known for comes out this crap isn't gonna happen and if it does well that we learned from that and we're ready for you know five but about that you dream some of the questions that about the least ensure that others to but you something like that is every from that is i mean well the reason we are having these specific questions is because last year the wrist in where the one who will i be here because an us some other people mention some people feel that the wrist is do more that they are doing right now but that's my only saying that so you use estranged analogy i is better you that i would like to see that there is can easily i tool i mean use yes like a smart well i will i would like to think that this has my will be messing i mean they hire the what they do is just basically compile all you know messed up for example so there are a few to propose are period release teen doesn't aside i mean we are going to take these and these teachers is not like that if you to proposal i've sent to the best of better on the people talk and the release team stays on the meeting okay people say that it makes that there were a we should include based on this feature or medium used being a benevolent at all the raw and be sure that the tutors way on them being people but we happy can people not the goals because we have a power we happy can be put because those people propose feature and the community approved that so in that sense i thought i read only that probably which try to learn something from the past and i think that and sees use something that you don't to you know three i think that the people have the feeling that listing half a lot of power because of these where am and don't gonna stumble the wrist in west estate apropos thing you know three saying but in the end they just proposal that and they committed i with that but i'm saying is that wasting reason out at this is you on and decision team is just to ask i'm not talking about my opinion and my for something and i have we is and then i that in the end it would be about the idea to having a real all the role saying we still do that because in the end i mean we are talking about is our on the power decision these at that mine ten of time so i mean we have it would be something strange to say to them and then it just two that are used to that i think so we have or whatever so we're as to what alan said before that you know we just here too hard i don't know i mean when i wanted to fix my first part i needed to learn about called guidelines and do presentation and you will see that and i mean the fact that we're now professional P R people doesn't mean though we don't we shouldn't have better it right so i just for sort of do know each group's blue well for but that's so far from each other you just don't in response to a one i mean i know what you're saying but it's not you and you and you and you when you it's we you and i think that's at the team level there's not like this thousands of teams and you know if the teams at the team level start talking i think will make some progress i sat suggestion and that mike are buying fee to highlight be communicators and to actually draw attention to the people who are and you were trying to help and in this area and i think that's a good suggestion does anybody want to move on to another question i think we've talked about this one or has a completely different point to make O C R i've been making not making a vision for your so it's probably want to or just projects that still a lot of i don't think you know more do needs you know technical polishing it'll barely scheme or by you know someone policy at all it's it has to be the main thing this thing zero we have had features it's probably not the maintenance what that it don't know how it works but it works because there are some still know some people around the world are using it so before you little a feature i think it's the maintainers rolled to take at that's been used are not you know your body about so coming from you know how you know the you sell this and all those things i think it should be more based on that to take into addition i don't think about it or any other of policing from it at the least team auditorily any other team that so we should work and if F features been the writing it should be centralised to that more than instructing you know a you know be known to the as a whole thing you know that so i really see this anyway just how are our meeting i was waiting for that ten any i okay thanks everybody for caring some i don't to stick around and i don't know no i just wanted to make a comment because i'm a naughty so that he thinks our mission statement is pretty clear and i think it's i don't think it is i think we have a very i mean saying we are providing a great experience for everyone is a very good draft and it gets of an overview of what we're trying to do but saying a great experience for users which users what users that it's pretty nice to say that we can please everybody in the world with one single experience so we cannot so we're definitely focusing in a certain kind of person and we might as well figured it's all together and great experiences a very broad term we experience for want grey experience how and which way so i think there's a lot of gaps we need to fill and we have a as a basis but i mean i guess there's a lot gaps we need to fill it in needs to be needs to be okay there is a lot of things to define in that particular mission statement it's a mission statement should not be three pages long to detail word you are users are or who they are not or how the experience should be the life for a how it should not be delightful a i think abroad mission statement is fine and as to be chiselled down on very specifically with the L for the marketing team or the average or whatever goals bowl by likeable and the release team and everybody else that works on them at a higher level than just a single mould you month and then as to be handled by each and every month in are in some way so that's important but the mission statement can be attacked that it we're gonna use this to fill the gaps how many people here were dissipate in a foundation sorry stingray meeting to discuss this further i would okay let's get this only the next piracy meeting of the foundation i think we should probably wrap this up and make sure that we have plenty of worms going on throughout the year to discuss this should be only a lot of thing i mean we've got such a passion involved me i do you wanna and i that you know i want and on a slightly different note the board i mean every other week which i've been involved in as you guys know a lot of nonprofit organisations this is the only one i know that is like this where the board wants to meet so often most boards that i've been involved with me like quarterly at most so every other week isn't seen it's a lot of work and so i just want to ask quickly in like one sentence or last what is it about can on that makes you think that it's worth serving on the board to meet every other weekend to you know be have to answer for the project in general select start at the centre this and the pressure community also the community a little you go so it's one now i feel like i need us shorts nor keep it these thing and i don't have wanted to be brief crying out i'm way past a B equal access to software information for everybody all over the world community no it's worth it so them so who is the question videos i a i have you can pretend of the organisation now you're in for and second term why do you spend your time doing it well so so i'm not i'm not sure it's gonna be very inspirational a sprays or something but you know like somebody needs to do it writes someone needs to do i see there are so many other people that do like a lot of really hardcore development but someone needs to do like to boring meetings but a phone meetings to but like long that hi so for me it is the high standards and the friendly communities that i'm proud to like introduce new people to and you know that we build in something that can reach a lot of people thank you are we should have these conversations all the time so will announce the next foundations i receive meeting please join us tell everybody else you wasn't here today that they should join the nist meeting about keep doing it thank you so much for coming