so i'm i don't i totally don't even need this microphone "'cause" i'm actually really loud what we're gonna talk about today is tag to pdfs and all the we're gonna mention accessibility a little bit is actually is an accessibility presentation and the fact that the accessibility logo appears on every single slide is just me spacing that out and using the same temp let's i always still but our agenda is to talk about tag pdfs what they are why we want them and how to make them because once you find out what they are and why we want them finding out that it's really easy to make them is gonna be quite important in my opinion we talk about the current status of a project are actually going to be talking about which is implementing detect pdf support and then we're gonna demos are always subject to the double what fact and what we would be able for you is totally screenshot of so we have screen shots we can provide demos upon request and you fix the crash so we should be okay without but we just don't see it as you know absolutely park actually necessary okay so attack P D that's kind of like a P D F on steroids it has a lot more stuff than it lot of met information in particular as you might of guessed from the name tag pdf it has tax element tags very similar and in some cases exactly the same as you see in H T M L there are also I Ds for every single element there's alternative text if it's provided and there's also i have to kinda google to find out exactly what this means from the spec replacement text for symbols the spec expect pretty flexible but the first thing or the one above it alternative text for images and other things like that those are like big phrases and descriptive whereas for symbols you could characters a single letter that's a graphic those kind of things so the replacement text is assumed according to the spec to be a single character and that's what the differences between those two things okay right we want them and i told you i was gonna talk a little tiny bit about accessibility what's motivated or implementing the tag speak with the tag P D F's is accessibility because there there's a couple problems with advance as you guys may have noticed from our recent friends of good for into can campaign and i can't relate it's so know just been fired from the board for the friends of get numb campaign it's just a big old we need to make the stuff accessible and part of that is no i believe zero accessibility right now part of it is for non tacked pdfs getting the minimal level of accessibility i want that will give users who are blind is accessed at about the level of G at it and as you know G at it doesn't have things like heading and list items and stuff like that it's just text so having just text is better than having nothing at all and we're not gonna talk about that aspect of what we've been working on but there is so much semantic and structural information in X M L mark marked up mark up marked up documents like that something is a heading level one or heading level to or a table and how many rows and columns are in that table these were all things this site as you these my stuttering a sighted users we just look at and them you know we know what's going on if you're user who was blind your screen reader needs to present that in speech and in braille and in order for that to happen we need access to all this that information and we don't have it because popular has absolutely no support for tech pdfs by the way thanks again friends of you know this is lots of all some stuff related to this whole project is happening because of that campaign now honestly i could care less about some of these things i am totally motivated by accessibility but i think the rest of the community should really care about tech pdfs for because of the items on this slide you know we keep talking about you know are we still calling it can all my last but we're talking about getting on tablets and smaller devices with smaller screens and if we can a tree flow these documents on you know a little and very phone or if i don't phone that looks like my hundred phone if you know the whole pdf experts is gonna suck on the mobile platform so if we have tag pdfs we could really easily do re well then the rest is the copy paste and export if i select text from an a beautifully market pdf that be really cool if i don't lose not just that formatting but you know the fact that something is a heading the fact that something is a table if i just get taxed i might have to reformat it or at that point i might just you know it might not be worth that i can type fast okay so there's hundreds in the bad news because this is on the right if you use lee profits it and i'll show you a screenshot and then it is like to burke easy it's like one step to export your document to tag pdf so that means if you care about accessibility if you want the reef well if you want to copy and paste it's a single step but that this is like no little supports this alex said that a bunch of research the other day about that's it it's like and they work now but i did it's literally were just like no it's you know sky like soup nazi on seinfeld that X P D F for you know there is and you know better than i do some people are interested that in fact is possible indication of will be looks at the documents is fine because i've so you can just have to unpack pdf you can this problem to all the T and they usually we ought to us but pca that means that will docks cost all the is to all the information format i don't know we looks can supplant respond to that idea but in because of lactic there are a lot of interesting that because after all for example in that kind of mix they want to i mean is in is in a lot of faculties is mandatory product to see have to complain it pdfs so they need that they actually really interested because we want mathematics be accessible something that is not happening right now in the case of it works is also happened same you when you say that's a P D F is there is no provision to greatest target pdf bought you can spoke to all the we develop this great that we did show them what i mean is that well just to do is there so they are not using that and then there a lot of tools that great E D S but they don't have in your children in the rest of we don't know them tutors if i would have leds thereof tools but then find then we will ask i would be an effective because they're this is what happened with other tools to i was kind of funny i said you know alex can guess this list of all the tools and it's kind of like okay all these are now may i stop now it's like you can stop so there may be other tools out there that do have this support that we found one it has perfect quick support i got a whole bunch that doubt and then alex got tired okay i'm hoping a you can ever get like an entire dialogue and big enough but i'm hoping you can see the one little thing that's czech that's attacked pdf and so basically all you have to do with sleeper office and this is for brighter calc and it impress and presumably the others you just have to choose export to P D F from the file menu dialogue pops up czech tack pdf as it wanna point out is that right about that czech boxers pdf slash a one and a all standards need to have lots and lots of letters and numbers on them i don't know why that is actually you know we could be said that attacked pdf a skylight pdf on steroids well this P D F a one a it's kinda like pad pdf on steroids and what it gives your excuse me the objective is for searching and quantum plugged re proposing document content and it includes and i don't understand this and standards at all i would think that be would include a rather than a including be but for some reason the one a includes one be and that like it's put on the slide it's about document appearance and we're gonna come back to that point in the minute structure and hierarchy you know other child objects you know what are the parent objects you know what it is actually a tree tacked pdf which we've already talked about unicode character maps to be perfectly frank id to go read the big sixty enter to know exactly what that means and what is expected and language specification just what like which is something so in terms of the current status of the work that's been done popular right now some of that's and master a some of it's in a branch but right now the entire document structure of tact pdfs it's been implemented for poplar works posing all of this information for popular G lab and there's some that if you who are like popular geeks there's all these different tools to examined documents and information about the altars and all that stuff and those tools of been modified to expose this information so that you can verify that attack pdf is coming out the way you expect and popular okay we have not yet got into doing anything with this in advance that's gonna be the next main step and i put in parentheses you know then doing this for accessibility because again this is this is what motivated all of this work it's not what's also about all of this work that's what motivated it and we can't of course expose what is not in advance to assistive technologies but that's the next priority after about some and terms of all the support that we've done the reason i put a question mark by the are one be part the one be part of the standard is because as you'll see in the fake demo screenshot that's we're already totally now able and exposing or preserving rather of the formatting so what are not we done every last aspect of the standard i couldn't tell you i again i would have to read that standard very carefully but at least functionally i believe that we have all that implemented that pdf again is already done word exposing the hierarchy since i'm not entirely sure what the official definition and spec requirements are for unicode character maps i can tell you and we and we are already exposing these the language if there is a language associated with an element so i kind of already set this particular next steps are to do the a bedside work expose that to assistive technologies and figure out exactly what the status is what the standard the last thing on their this is i think it'd be one of those patches welcome some people just i personally lovely profits some people don't because it's is big joining at the time slow creature there is nothing we don't have time or the expertise quite frankly the motivation to add export support in all of the tools that are currently no but if you sell your favourite tool on there like that the community would welcome a patch and information with the previous like that about sport in the to use in the that previous this is something like the F on that you can problem when we were when we were talking a lot about sort of also well we use it is that they did he say that the well the results they were not your it is but i seen having target the previous for really target previous you because one of the tools web upgrading the and the same in this a way tools upgrade pdfs well not with the really what is allow great impacted bps because the P D of re a previous will not able to with a that's what so i want one is the other reason that colours mention is that it's like he said nobody knows what attack pdfs and that was one of the things that motivated me you know telling you what it will be a why you should want to make add pdfs but i would kinda argue that even if all you guys start making packed pdfs there is actually still a lot of usage going out there because the legal requirements you know if you are legally bound to have all of your documents accessible euro you already know that had pdfs you are already producing them so even if no one else is making had pdfs governments on educational institutions another big people who could be sued for not providing documents that are accessible they're already doing that at pdf colours to know that okay and how going to the point of this is like that is getting because this funny because now is them moment that we talk about what is the world that we have done but the three that within that do that but what so we would like science i we imprisoned impetus just heated up to work because we are really hard not experience are doing document or something we are calling about him document but just every night so i thought that was most appropriate to go sweetie we thought that was a perfect the best for him and we also though the world was made by kind of you have at least a month in a piranha beams are you was a review want to call so i'd say and if someone is that some of the cold is right now i did but we were repository right now we so it's up to parents in you also in some but just some box and in fact some of the bass were and a quickly is this we we're where we were providing the demonstration because we were using tools in fact the fish buttons about providing the tools with the support of the or the target pdf and the other this at a little bar about a meeting is it huh right now but in the previous weeks kind of the of was W more the call so some of the buttons on that on that runs is already a master and is going is and only be remote and we have a that is life i mean we are we are the know that and miss sorting a how i passed how corpus is a task on light of quality strong what's easy but we want to we added up that as light because we wanted to and give is probably to that is not a trivial task and you have thought that is almost as much work import we have called on them but we really because this is also in a important as we are as the others the support them pop of course that means that eventually some other a three communities but so what communities like cute well date is work and we say so we have it is another example of whatever you some with all the official what communities mm what i've this is what i'm saying i mean it's not very important how much the lines about i mean the model sentences and i some popular three thirty thousand nice some public really means that is not really a at work bone at this is moment so S in the advertisements what we have it for what we have after so before we have i to call pdf info that just went something in for a lot of P D F also to cetera and then we have some tools that's great is based on the P D F it quit is based on the text but was think there's without stupor and then we have another to that quick a nice meal in fact this is well the reason we have that we mentioned that tool is because now event on the look at least some people ask i would like to with the P D F that i come to that with it being is not about what is what we have to and use it all cases is other people recommends to use P D F please mail to take the pdf on which is to me a but the problem with that is that you get a P D F without not something that you get that it's to me it without noticed after and this is a sample i you at the i don't have to concede that during the pdf with here somewhere that the stuff and at the right it's the mail that you but before that you have work and you know it is the same at with i'm not and formatting at all i mean okay you have the ball but engaged me that you have you don't have the information about the kids for example if you if you use a table with that tool you who you will have only they can to do that they yes just print just without any formatting so you don't know if you aren't it is the only in this a controller on the second and the second column well this is exactly this is what i was saying i thought also a well i think that's probably for you would be for you can just a breeze but if you if you thing they do pdf when we pulled is this you can see at the right that you have here is but only text a lot right so is without any formatting at all so i can as a so we were saying we are going to support and sorry we as are the and countless other that report of target pdf from popular so they are so it'd to similar to use that support so i'll be and weighted up to call pdfs to know that if you don't do that there is one but you can things that this the stupor the just to the to be have can things so i've have some sorry some you have a chance to be pdf in for you know the two point just trooper finally to our problems did it you know emotive to display to here sure sure we have the same example okay left you have to pdf and the right to have this communal but now you it meant to system to maybe so well this is what i alluded to before it that if you remember before the all of the formatting was lost that this gets back to that one be standard that i need to read very carefully to see if we're not implementing any aspect of it but this time the you know like the italics a man heading to that carried over so there's and like i said there's an excellent chance the bulk of thee one be standard is now implemented as well i don't is working and this is a screenshot of and the tool i mean and in that here is easy if there's to see that now we have a is true or of the document because we will have different blocks with this H one means he there so we can see that it meant based approach but probably it's you have to see with with the department did you know and we can see at there right about of the right the screenshot that we can see this is to prove using a at review that show that you we have a best and it meant that is heating and element that's a bar find them and that's another here we can see a next argument the sample with these items but i've got women thing the then the nist at this to put in fact it is what i'm saying with the previous business well we have the tooling was suggest getting the text a printing need what printing on is pushing it but without mundane interceptor and this is the case of the of i think that as you can see bits to me and maintains is that was a table we have to can do we have all the roles and with a put this is a tools we only half it text you but hello you can see the and if you for that is a terminal the mel to that you to maintaining the different for all okay there's from the table i think that as you can see we are not doing a club time you know because we have a really expose some these kind of presentations so we know that when you do that we have minutes work it just depends to quest so we had this question service as an see as i say you can in service we are going to probably space as limestone you contributing to tell you one so and you question i you said one of the benefits of the tags was for refund and me and just like revealing the ignorance here but i thought that one of the benefits of P F was the it was always like print perfect basically me view it so i was wondering like how the idea every for fits into like the typical pdf is case like it like the fallback mode or is it i mean this is funny because when we were we have some for sits for that one people website the same the same on the forums was saying was saying that we did well not sort of all that maybe a puppy da was maintaining that there for you but busily that in the end you want to see the document don't know but there's no way of what is the size of your screen show in what i mean is for some local in this it's true that it doesn't make sense tutor for all but from others i mean it will be really strange if you need to force to share to make a sort of this illness after don't want to see that probably and thought there's some doubts about how to do that a how to probably that but maybe a is having some something similar to what it's demand has right now i mean in addition and estimate happens and you have the roles are hard you move the mobile phone is a about overflowing that this i mean i know that this it's just train is actually say because they are you know idea of the P D F was that but we also need to like take into account that these that pdfs support was obvious rescinded is less a presently you have if you have for the some yes but they needed in the same way that there are you know that a proposal to pdf was not was it was having something so more for really that that's great but size then it just added to about to something like something more well how to i don't know how to say that my documents friendly gonna say something and that might be totally not real that like kerry as if you a say a bullet is last or a table and none of the if the fact that that's it actual you know structural list or actual structural table is not known what how was that tax cut around is it going to manage to and didn't itself so it's not under the bullet on the second line or not and if it's just you know where i mean i think lists items are gonna be the the biggest use case but my going but you know tape i'm so you know what i'm really liked so that which is why i wear sunglasses i just was wondering no if you will i don't know we are written that actually question more i guess i can see we are getting one i just to repeat myself i think the but what instances the biggest one because in we can actually put these on the screen but before we did attack pdf support people like character is strictly a character just like any in a and B S C or whatever and wrapping that taxed will work but if we don't treat it as an actual list item the indentations gonna be screwed up and it's gonna look ugly i have another question to actually so you should a list of of tools the can help protect pdfs earlier in your presentation i was wondering if you also look that other consumers of P F it support take pdfs and puts the support like for so like the rear probably supports I P F but also like be this pdf that yes support type you have placed in that also sort of drive adoption something really don't question because i think that we didn't get it so those tools are tools that make pdfs there and support I P F what tools that read P F support i our which class okay we did we but in the little world and if just what was in the pitch so we will it means will be the first one that will support that because okay we did it is that because this is official where eve and so you know which will talk about our spares but and in the rest of the world show windows are that the stuff and i've got we will unlock what about the right there is the they wouldn't course for example because of well support a spell target pdf and at this address something that provided above is that is that is that how it but also that that we sorry so about be provided a planning or something like that to make these we have to pdf and now because so we have these already doing that so i mean thought in a lot of and government pages talking about and how the pdf should be so should be accessible base a use accurate right that will be sort of that these target and make sure that using that growing up right that we is a screen we are that it it's work fine and we there was of the pose well it is happening all is the same the saying that means that they don't support like pdf in but for number one of the samplers is this pdfs to do it it's to use of the word for windows will about us is aware set of these is having the same thing this is but it's also say is a spot to pdf but is not target so well we well this work with a tinge finished we mean that up to fish or what communicate we will have one tool that properly as well too bad pdf that is little things i want to that is the teams that probably we target pdfs that would be more or less the same situation that in the winter that is probably right about it we that the difference in terms of windows is that windows has had the ability with it screen readers to provide access to tag pdf something to lose track but over again kate now and that you know i know this is an accessibility talk again that that's i can't separate myself from accessibility it's really embarrassing when people in the work a list say you know i can use our cup with firefox and leave are often do all this stuff and people say well what do you do to read pdfs and some people say you know do the P D F to H T M L that you lose all the heading information but what a lot of people say as i bit into windows and i used jaws so we were solving well we're actually by not having pack pdf support we're actually sending people off to use non free software and now we're solving this problem okay and a question sorry we are we are similar question okay thank what do you think it next most important thing is to accessibility in get a but not really with you have exactly and the next is sort of the if i have a real that was will verify from on this where it was not able to go to a presentation about well to the president about was able to or worse will because the next thing for the next challenge for the so this team will be the will answer about right now it is pi two well it's with X in five first of them this is with X so that made this bass will be making sure that all other stuff works with waylon in fact agree you have to dean is somewhat behind the other team's because as far as the normal but down from can still people use grading us some kind of this buddy mental bronze we the way that's about so that means that without if you use the plants you can there is probably is cost problem or something like that i don't know well the that if you something to but i a list they they will provide to the users i way to this can so long way to and we don't have that on it's pi so this is the next thing is okay thank and more question i so i just i mean i know idea not has been video so does when they is this is related it and to something like pdf innovations is it could be used to something similar or if it's at a bit and related thing so i think that the different stuff and i think you know five anything that you bins racial but adaptation so well i we supported a little bit but there was a google summer of code project that sounds like it might not continue to do some work on that and there's been a lot of discussion around making i don't know the specifics but around making annotations way more cool so it sounds like they're that we have a little support for it but we need a whole lot more but in terms of since i've ovaries turned this talk into an accessibility talk now annotations to my knowledge has nothing to do with tack pdfs in terms of accessibility after the annotations get implemented we're gonna probably have to do a similar accessibility implementation okay thank you so i think that no well thank you for being if you have been every question you are