19:06:49 #startmeeting 19:06:49 Meeting started Thu Feb 13 19:06:49 2014 UTC. The chair is sri. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:06:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:07:41 So here is the agenda: 19:07:45 1) annual report planning 19:07:58 2) Pritivi Campaign 19:08:03 3) outreach to enterprise 19:08:14 4) 3.12 release planning 19:08:31 5) community interviews (maybe part of annual report planning) 19:08:47 sri: yes I think so to 19:08:59 standard agenda items: 19:09:00 GNOME in teh news 19:09:06 2) interesting feedback from teh community 19:09:12 3) upcoming events. planning SCALE 19:09:22 oaky, let's start, because a lot of topics and not a lot of itme 19:09:39 #topic annual report planning 19:09:51 Alright, first topic is the annaul report. 19:10:08 Diego has sent out an outline, and a plan of start to finish 19:10:11 has anybody read it? 19:10:40 Yeah, really love his idea. 19:10:48 same here 19:10:53 sri: yes great read 19:10:59 One thing to be mindful of though - audience 19:11:40 Who do we write this narrative for? 19:12:12 I think the audience is external, maybe other organizations and our own internal foundation members. 19:12:19 sounds very interesting 19:12:31 in teh last report, we had sort of had "public" e.g. 15 years of GNOME article and OPW 19:12:56 I thought that as board members are a key audience 19:13:02 audience is a hard question. we could try and get some kind of numbers when we release this report 19:13:24 (at least knowing where the hits come from, simple stuff) 19:13:30 So might be worth thinking about what kind story would resonate with them 19:14:30 I think that generally speaking, could be nice to present the story of people of GNOME 19:14:35 in fact, for somethign like this, I would love to have a fancy web version kinda like a book, that we could point people to, specifically organizations that have similar mission but maybe not related to technology 19:15:08 that would be awesome sri 19:15:19 mozilla have done that for several years 19:15:52 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2011/ 19:15:53 theming a website and a PDF might be challenging though, it should be possible to find a middle ground however :) 19:16:02 how much space and where could we release these stories? we could write a sort of format... 19:16:10 http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2012/ 19:16:17 we've had a number of people like hashem and Priyanka who are interested in web stuff 19:16:49 and of course our regulars like saumya, andreas and fabiana 19:16:52 the thing about the annual report is to just make sure it stays a report 19:17:03 for the period concerned 19:18:19 hmm. 19:18:30 sorry for splitting my attention, will probably be able to join the meeting soon 19:18:36 no worries. 19:18:37 Hello. I really like the idea of the web book. 19:18:51 we can keep it as a report, it's really a matter of presentation 19:19:39 yes, and as oliverp pointed to the stopmotion blog, we could probably incorporate those ideas in the presentation too. 19:19:42 okay, so the decision today is to go forward with Diego's proposal 19:19:54 oh, I have to go, I can use the list to provide updates on my agenda items. 19:19:55 we can work on teh logistics in a separate meeting 19:20:19 Priyanka: cool :) 19:20:21 on that topic, I'm ok with leading so sri does not die of overwork 19:20:30 diegoe: thanks man. 19:20:48 sri: bro grabs 19:21:04 #agreed Diego will manage the annual report to conclusion 19:21:24 i think are also in agreement with doing diego's proposal 19:21:38 #agreed going forward wtih diego's proposal 19:21:40 (oliverp: Priyanka: let's talk about this over mail) 19:21:43 +1 on diego'd proposal 19:22:16 I'd like to start helping to the annual report writing an short article about the accessibility work done. Is that ok ? 19:22:24 diegoe , looking forward to it. 19:22:41 (jjmarin: let's also talk about that over mail :D) 19:22:41 jjmarin: if you want, I'll be happy to help you :) 19:22:54 jjmarin: of course, please put your name on the wiki page. 19:23:06 diegoe: there is a list ther eon teh wiki page who have volunteered :) 19:23:12 oh, and please add an email if you don't mind everyone, maybe a google ID for possible hangouts 19:23:35 * diegoe can't see wiki now, infra seems to be on scheduled downtime 19:24:03 ah, okay. 19:24:10 such as it is. 19:24:18 move on to the next topic? 19:24:27 let's! 19:24:43 #topic pritvi campaign 19:24:52 this was oliverp topic 19:25:00 oliverp: can yous till talk about it or are you gone? 19:25:16 have one minute 19:25:29 okay, speak your piece :) 19:26:23 its basically just a remainder that the Pitivi are coming up (in about two weeks) and we should be ready to promote it. :) 19:26:35 right. 19:27:04 is this related to the community interviews you also mentioned? 19:27:07 andreasn: can we get a banner and what not made to put on the foundatiion website? 19:27:12 oliver: no 19:27:19 diegoe: no 19:27:31 diegoe: actually, that was part of annaul report, but I think oliver can talk about it in a annual report specific meeting. 19:27:38 uhum 19:28:04 oliver was interested in conducting interviews and possibly have those interviews in teh annual report. 19:28:08 I don't know if that fits the agreed upon theme. 19:28:29 otherwise, we will have to expose it like we did when Flavia was doing them 19:28:53 Deindre, rather :) 19:29:19 ok, here 19:29:25 AFAIK, Pitivi is not a FoG campaign, right ? 19:29:26 we could write an interview to someone in the Pitivi team 19:29:29 will read the backlog 19:29:36 yeah jjmarin, not a FoG campaign 19:29:42 it's just hosted by GNOME 19:29:49 and we're happy to promote it a little too :D 19:30:00 Deindre: I was thinking that. Could be a chance to try something new 19:30:03 Mathieu_Du is here, though not sure if he's actually here 19:30:17 Will their campaign interfere with release marketing? 19:30:19 I am karen 19:30:20 Deindre: was going to ask oliverp if he wanted to give that a try but he's gone :P 19:30:31 We must have prepare a new in wgo to be launch at the same time that the campaign 19:30:53 Have we checked their dates against the release schedule? 19:31:09 Mathieu_Du: at this point are you only waiting for the board approval of the provision? 19:31:10 good point aday 19:31:18 #info we want to prepare for the pritvi campaign and be ready to market it. 19:31:22 aday; I think the capaign would launch sooner - like in the next week 19:31:26 is that right Mathieu_Du? 19:31:46 karen, yes pretty much, just need Jeff Shcroeder to fix a minot issue with the set up he's done for our website 19:31:50 And when will it run until? 19:31:57 so long as the launch of that campaign is earlier in the release, I think it's ok if it overlaps 19:32:16 it can be promoted separately/in the background after the intial launch 19:32:17 aday, there's no fixed deadline 19:32:25 Ah ok 19:32:32 Mathieu_Du: you can keep promoting it in various channels, is what I mean 19:32:39 even if we don't focus on it anymore on the main GNOME sites 19:32:46 Yeah of course 19:33:03 social lauch? 19:33:07 #info needt o time advertising pritvi campaign and release 19:33:08 Having GNOME promote it for a short amount of time is already great :) 19:33:15 :) 19:33:43 and we can run your press release with a short intro from us 19:33:43 we could launch it over tweeter or g+ account 19:33:49 so it won'd be too much work ;D 19:33:52 I'm sure we can do that 19:33:58 Mathieu: and posts in the planet can help to complement the interviews you are planning 19:34:35 karen: some of us could leave a quotation for their press release 19:34:36 can we do a call for interviews from people like muktware ? 19:34:55 totally 19:35:26 sri: we just need to be careful not to exhaust interest in GNOME for the release 19:35:37 jjmarin, yep we're gonna blog a lot around the campaign, lots of things to say 19:35:41 but usually news people want more leads not less 19:35:43 karen: right. 19:36:01 Sorry, I'm not in planet gnome 19:36:15 really? huh.. av can help you. 19:36:26 everyone on the foundation should bea ble to post on planet. 19:36:37 anyways, I thinkw e need to move on. 19:36:43 jjmarin: you deserve! 19:36:58 I think we will need to schedule something early next week to work on the visuals for pritvi campaign 19:36:59 I applied it, but my blog was not interested enough :/ 19:37:10 interesting 19:37:22 sri, trying to find out why the VMs are getting stuck at boot .. 19:37:34 av: o_O bleah. 19:37:37 sri, what do you mean with visuals ? 19:37:43 For the GNOME website ? 19:37:43 visuals, sri? 19:37:50 karen: banners and what not. 19:37:56 oh I don't think we need 'em 19:37:56 I'm all for it :D 19:38:02 hah. 19:38:05 heh 19:38:07 Aha yes we do :P 19:38:10 damnit 19:38:11 hahaha! 19:38:22 No I don't know, we never talked about that until now 19:38:29 I think it's one of those we need to balance for the release as well. 19:38:48 av: :/ sorry you're having trouble. 19:38:57 Mathieu_Du: we could also have a quick chat later about helping with the highlights posts, so we know what to exploit on the news ;) 19:39:12 av: "yum erase systemd" --reddit 19:39:18 OK, I don't think we are going to be able to discuss all the issues for this in this meeting. 19:39:26 Yep, definitely, nekohayo will certainly have things to say about that as well I think 19:39:29 well, ok, so sri, Mathieu_Du and the pitivi team have built their own fundraising mini-site with a great video and visuals 19:39:33 let's move on, and see if we can do a follow up meeting after this one or later. 19:39:41 I think we mostly need to make sure that we've got the news items 19:39:48 and social networking, etc 19:39:52 so people know it's happenign 19:39:56 nothing in news.gnome.org or foundation.gnome.org pointing them to the website? 19:40:05 yes, we should do that sri 19:40:13 that's what I meant by banners I guess. 19:40:14 Yep, clearly, the only thing needed is something on GNOME's website to link to us for a limited amount of time 19:40:28 I'm not against banners, I just think we need to focus on the release 19:40:46 okay 19:40:51 Anyway we can talk about that later, don't want to disrupt the meeting :) 19:40:55 speaking of htat, let's move on. I dont' want to spend too much time on this. 19:40:57 ok :) 19:40:59 we can iron out those details, but seems we already have some agreement 19:41:03 yep 19:41:11 #topic outreach to enterprise 19:41:15 alxgrtnstrngl: I believe this is your topic? 19:41:28 alxgrtnstrngl: go ahead. 19:41:29 Yes, it is. 19:41:32 OK. 19:41:49 make sure you introduce yourslef :) 19:42:25 I'm currently a CompSci major in NYC at CUNY. My professional background is in sales, Series 7/63 and I made a transition to CompSci to pursue software engineering. 19:43:21 welcome alxgrtnstrngl :) 19:44:05 Recently due to the Fedora Workstation project I decided to get more involved in GNOME in general. I fielded several ideas and proposals on the GNOME mailing list that in hindsight targeted the wrong audience. 19:44:36 I can provide links to these later. 19:45:35 My ideas matured and I think I've found a very interesting way to accomplish several high-level items. I call it GNOME Enterprise. 19:46:38 go ahead 19:47:17 I think GNOME should collaborate with the Linux Foundation and create a massive collaborative project involving many different organizations such as Adobe to build a GNOME based desktop for use by businesses and on workstations, from the ground up, based on industry feedback and insights. 19:47:46 The incentive for participation is that companies can use the solution in their own operations or use things like GTK and other items in their products. 19:48:14 Great example is Adobe, they're a huge RHEL client, but little has been done to get them involved on the desktop side, not just as passive donors but as active collaborators. 19:48:49 Then there's Valve Software, SteamOS uses GNOME 3 and there's a real opportunity to get their engineers involved in developing something like this. 19:49:38 There are other non-traditional companies that can get involved too, like NYSE Technologies and others. 19:50:16 phew, home now 19:50:37 The biggest strength of GNOME is enterprise and most stakeholders involved such as Red Hat are 100% enterprise focused. 19:51:14 I see that you would like to try to tap this involvement into more resources for desktop development 19:51:26 welcom home aday :D 19:51:36 :-) 19:51:39 thanks karen. got to love london rush hour 19:51:44 Correct, and have engineers at these sponsor companies embed themselves with GNOME Developers and designers. 19:53:08 After listening to the Fedora Workstation mailing list it's clear that the WG there will implement upstream changes to GNOME anyways that will be more enterprise focused. 19:53:47 alxgrtnstrngl, maybe need to be a bit careful with the word "enterprise" 19:54:16 it can mean a lot of different things 19:54:34 perhaps the focus should be on seeing how we can get the mentioned companies involved at least in the feedback loop 19:54:53 and see if we can evolve that into new contributions 19:54:55 well if we have access to them, it would be interesting. 19:55:01 I don't think Gnome is a business oriented DE. not at moment, I mean 19:55:02 but unfortunately they would need to provide the resources 19:55:05 i think the focus of fedora is with developers (which is itself a fuzzy category) 19:55:16 we won't be able to do that ourselves.. so in terms of engagement, that would be what the focus would be. 19:55:29 Deindre: +1 19:55:30 aday_, the Fedora Workstation will target developers at small and large companies. 19:55:50 Deindre, sri, i disagree 19:56:09 aday_: yeah? tell me :) 19:56:21 sri, well, who do you think pays my wage? :) 19:56:28 I _am_ interested in seeing gnome in teh enterprise 19:56:52 sri: me too, of course, but it isn't ready. 19:57:01 aday_: well sure, but we haven't really been seeing much movement from at least red hat that they would like to see GNOME go therE? 19:57:06 Deindre, huh? 19:57:11 it is too volunteers based, IMHO 19:57:29 sri, go where? 19:57:42 This is my current draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iW6TXmDqOtjLE-35qx4fXPFJeOy2TdGRgXGrRkjQF7g/edit?usp=sharing 19:57:48 and definitely, it seems to me RHEL is GNOME and not GNOME3 based 19:57:55 sri, RHEL workstation is highly profitable 19:57:58 it makes sense, it gives an hint 19:58:13 Deindre GNOME3=GNOME 19:58:28 RHEL will ship GNOME 3.8 19:58:33 gnome is already being used in many enterprise contexts 19:58:43 no jjmarin, sorrym I disagree, RHEL DE is different, 19:58:53 yahoo have a big fedora deployment, for example 19:59:29 I think this could be a big challenge for us, listen what enterprise needs and build something tailored 19:59:35 aday_: it's *highly* proofitable now? 19:59:41 but we should grow 19:59:44 cool 20:00:03 karen, depends on your definition of *highly*, but desktop has a healthy margin from what i hear 20:00:08 heh 20:00:09 ok 20:00:17 I guess Christian Schaller would have an interesting opinion about all this :) 20:00:21 karen, "desktop doesn't make money" is one of those bad memes 20:00:29 not rooted in reality 20:00:40 I agree, aday_, last I checked it was moderately profitable 20:00:42 hmmm.. 20:00:50 anyway, no matter 20:00:53 my data is old 20:00:58 :) 20:01:09 but I know it's been profitable 20:01:11 Desktop is going to stay in the enterprise for a long time, but a part of consumers will move to tablets and mobiles devices. 20:01:12 which is important 20:01:15 aday_: we need to provide useful and sharable tools, and most of them doesn't work properly on fedora. I think about skype and hangout too 20:01:21 I just was wondering if there was more info I could go touting 20:01:24 :) 20:01:31 anyway, from a marketing pov i really don't think we should be saying that gnome isn't ready 20:01:35 it is very much ready 20:01:38 yes 20:01:41 i agree aday_ 20:01:43 it is already being deployed 20:01:53 Deindre, skype and hengout don't work on fedora ? 20:02:01 aday_, The problem is that consumers will move on to tablets and mobile devices, you need segmented approaches to handling these things. 20:02:05 well, we need to be able to point out how to do large deployment in GNOME then 20:02:11 They pretty much do here, I might have misunderstood :) 20:02:11 aday_: talking from marketing POV gnome is perfect :) 20:02:14 for sysadmins and stuff. 20:02:34 sri, it would be cool to reach out to yahoo. see how they're using gnome 20:02:39 I have a mailing list called gnome-intgration that I created to actually talk abou thtis, about two years ago or so 20:02:49 aday_, then you have the Adobe Creative Suite problem, which has to be solved somehow. 20:02:51 aday_: yeah, your right 20:03:09 see I didn't think we had much interest as a project to do enterprise, and that we wanted gnome the product to be restricted to consumer level. 20:03:20 I'm _really_ happy that's not the case. 20:03:32 because GNOME does have the edge for enterprise 20:03:34 sri: +2!!! :) 20:03:46 The main problem of using GNOME in the enterprise is that we lack of tools for managing deployments 20:03:55 jjmarin, yeah that's not a good story 20:04:03 aday_: I have a contact at yahoo 20:04:11 karen, oh great 20:04:18 aday_: actually they've agreed to an interview but we never provided questions 20:04:47 sri, in the document I shared there's this line: Traditional desktop interface familiar to the majority of their workstation users. + Windows 7/XP users would need little to no training. 20:04:50 oh what? that's bad 20:04:53 jjmarin: the lack is about tools markets need. you can't dicatate tools to market, we're not strong enough 20:05:20 i bet we could get them those questions at anytime 20:05:48 also, this is off topic but before I forget, I spoke to a human rights lawyer in new zealand who's an extremely happy GNOME user 20:05:52 karen, do you know where their deployments are? 20:06:04 alxgrtnstrngl: that is not really what we want to do, we want ot say that GNOME is intuitively easy, and does not require a lot of training 20:06:06 aday_: no, that's a good question to ask 20:06:20 karen: really? dammit.. 20:06:21 karen, maybe someone could pay them a visit 20:06:21 ugh. 20:06:22 I figure we can ask all the questions we want and then tailor an interview from it ;D 20:06:26 * Deindre waves to karen :) 20:06:36 aday_: it's not geographically specific I don't think 20:06:45 aday_: (apologies to Deindre ) 20:06:46 anyone who asks for "Linux" gets fedora with GNOME3 20:06:53 was how I understood it 20:06:58 sri, exactly, things need to be optimized for enterprise, you're not throwing GNOME 3 away, just optimizing it. 20:06:58 karen, i'm feeling a bit anti-interview at the moment, actually. maybe that's a separate discussion though :{ 20:06:59 :) 20:07:01 * karen waves to Deindre!! 20:07:07 #action follow up on asking questions to Yahoo regarding GNOME deployment 20:07:14 ok aday_: no 20:07:16 problem 20:07:19 we really should be offering them a direct channel to talk with us 20:07:39 sri, that would be the ad board, i guess...? 20:07:43 yeah, at least try to get more big users on the loop 20:07:46 hi I wish to contribute to engagement for OPW this summers 20:07:55 cough (and lure them into advisory board) cough 20:07:59 actually I think that is really engagement team 20:08:04 diegoe, heh. yep 20:08:23 heh 20:08:29 sri, do we have the capacity to play that role? 20:08:30 can someone point out some bugs to solve? 20:08:33 adword could be, but a relationship with engagement team would be more active 20:08:47 and I don't want to give the impression that aboard is some kind of support network. 20:08:53 aday_, also a great way for volunteer outreach is if you have Google or Valve engineers working as mentors. 20:08:57 hi himangi, you just walked in in the middle of a meeting! 20:09:19 alxgrtnstrngl, sorry, mentors for what? 20:10:27 aday_, what I'm alluding to is that an overt enterprise project that attracted engineers from well known companies would attract a huge amount of volunteers. 20:10:35 * sri looks at the time.. ugh. We need to wrap up this discussion 20:11:15 sri, This concept needs work can I work with members of the team to refine it and pursue it further? 20:11:24 #info the idea is to optimize GNOME 3 for enterprise. Want to engage companies with this in mind. 20:11:31 actually, I have been in touch with Google to see if there are people who are willing to give us feedback on what it would take to make GNOME the default in Goobuntu 20:11:44 I have a few contacts now, I'm just not sure how to use them 20:11:47 karen, that would be interesting 20:11:53 aday_: we should talk about that when you get a chance 20:11:57 really it could be 20:12:04 alxgrtnstrngl: you can, it's understood that you're in charge? You'll need to attract the people though :) 20:12:34 alxgrtnstrngl: but please keep everyone in the loop before contacting anyone on our behalf :D 20:12:41 she should be coordinated 20:12:47 FYI - I'm a little stretched with other GNOME commitments. 20:12:57 i *really" don't want us to be sending a "gnome isn't for the enterprise" message 20:13:11 aday_: no, I agree completely. 20:13:14 you don't have to look far to see many enterprise features already 20:13:15 we want to say the opposite. 20:13:28 #info we want to make sure that we are not sending any message that GNOME is not for hte enterprise. 20:13:39 sri, noted... 20:13:49 I think is GNOME is quite good for the enterprise/office :-) 20:14:10 jjmarin, well yeah, it is 20:14:21 yeah 20:14:22 jjmarin: when meeting close, I'll tell you a couple of things about your latest :) 20:14:22 alxgrtnstrngl: you can consider both karen and I as your point person to the board. 20:14:29 jjmarin, I agree :) (I'm here reading) 20:14:31 *persons 20:14:37 sri, okay, thanks. 20:14:42 oaky, let's move on. 20:14:47 I want to discuss release planning 20:15:24 #action alxgrtnstrngl will work on the concept and keep engagement team members and the board in the loop. Alex will work with team members in working on this concept. 20:15:36 #topic GNOME 3.12 release planning 20:15:42 okay, this is our big one.. 20:15:55 * Deindre keep notes :) 20:15:57 it's amazing how long our meetings turn out, we usually have things to say tha tlast past an hour. 20:16:24 wiki's down... anyone know our release date? 20:16:32 end of march? 20:16:39 april, usually 20:16:42 April soemthing..l 20:16:42 there was talk of extending it to april 20:16:59 karen, yeah i haven't hard anything more about that 20:17:06 i have 26 march in my calendar 20:17:39 I think it has slipped a week. 20:17:47 so consider it april 4th or something. 20:17:56 ok 20:17:58 although that has not been confirmed. 20:18:25 it would be good for us to think about activities we can do to promote the release 20:19:08 I think there is sth about being in sync with Wayland 20:19:09 may I suggest a viral campaing? 20:19:12 do we still want to continue the slow release of features/videos? 20:19:30 maybe bastianilso could help with youtube video (eg GNOME TV) 20:19:38 oo Deindre: propose away :D 20:19:50 sure, Deindre 20:19:54 sri, this probably isn't going to be a very feature heavy release 20:20:08 just something to bear in mind 20:20:11 nod. 20:20:22 Deindre: how ? 20:20:40 i can draw up a rough feature list and send it to the mailing list 20:20:49 mclasen tells me that release is not going to be delayed 20:20:53 so march 26th it is. 20:21:25 aday_: that would be good! We should ask the the release team if they have a list as well just in case? 20:21:37 we could provide some interesting post or info and suggest to share it on social network 20:21:38 sri, i can coordinate with mclasen 20:21:41 sri: hello :) 20:21:44 aday_: groovy 20:21:47 sri: maybe I could 20:21:55 food for thought, I saw that wordpress does this on releases: http://wordpress.org/news/2013/12/parker/ (funny highlights video + release notes) 20:21:56 bastianilso: that would be kind of nice. 20:22:16 I just need to find the most suitable way to perform the recording first 20:22:35 I lke the use of miages, but I don't like the list of contributors. 20:22:57 I think what we've done so far is pretty decent even compared to wordpress 20:22:58 if you agree, I can spend some efferto to build it: we have time 20:23:00 focusing on wayland might be one strategy 20:23:13 we won't be able to use it by default in 3.12, but a lot of progress will have been made 20:23:34 and that work involves a lot of different people and areas 20:24:48 another strategy could be to emphasise small improvements - to make the narrative one of polishing and maturity 20:25:35 and listen users feedback :-) 20:25:50 Announcement from my owner (sysadmin): All the machines are back up, the outage has ended, thanks for your patience 20:26:11 (wired connections in the systems status area) 20:26:27 jjmarin, yeah, those stories work well together 20:26:55 another stategy could be make an infographic 20:29:23 Deindre, that'd be nice, if we can get someone to do it 20:29:31 av: thanks av! 20:29:58 aday_: I can help with the storypoard :) 20:30:06 exactly, I like the ideas of video and infographic, but I'm not able to do it :/ 20:30:51 * aday_ needs to eat 20:30:52 You guys know about gource ? Not sure how it fits in in terms of story telling, but it creates nice infographics about activity on a project 20:30:54 so, we need to get a list of volunteeers on this. 20:31:02 I like your idea aday_ there's been a lot of positive feedback regarding recent app redesigns and new GTK widgets. Maturity and highlighting things coming together would likely go over well. 20:31:08 storyboard. I'm able to do infographic, of course wih a designer is better 20:31:14 https://code.google.com/p/gource/? 20:31:19