19:07:13 <sri> #startmeeting
19:07:13 <Services> Meeting started Thu Feb 27 19:07:13 2014 UTC.  The chair is sri. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:07:13 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:07:20 <sri> okay, go!
19:07:27 <karen> hahaha
19:07:34 <sri> aday - I will let you drive.  It's your show :)
19:07:43 <sri> #chair aday
19:07:43 <Services> Current chairs: aday sri
19:07:52 <aday> eek, what do i do?!
19:08:08 <sri> heh
19:08:13 <sri> #topic release notes
19:08:23 <sri> go ahead and talk about release notes :)
19:08:25 <aday> right, good place to start
19:09:06 <aday> i'm happy to take the lead on those, but it would be great to have help
19:09:33 <sri> okay, so let's take a look at what you have here.
19:09:40 <sri> seems like we could map feature to person
19:10:12 <aday> it might be interesting for us to talk about which features we want to highlight
19:10:14 <hashem> aday, hi
19:10:37 <aday> i put the current feature list down here earlier - http://piratepad.net/9zvJH3OcVx
19:10:38 <sri> I can help facilitate volunteers to features if you like, aday
19:11:00 <karen> aday: it would be so great to have a discreet section called Changes Thanks to Your Feedback, or something like that
19:11:02 <bastianilso> hmm, wait I think I may have renamed someone to 'Bastian' besides myself. sorry about that
19:11:28 <sri> as to what features we should highlight - revamped videos seems good, enhanced high resolution display
19:11:34 <sri> that perked up Linus's interest btw
19:11:36 <aday> karen, yeah something like that. not sure how to phrase it, but i'd like to emphasise that
19:11:57 <karen> sri: will he give a quote this time? :D
19:11:57 <sri> karen: not a bad idea!
19:12:14 <aday> karen, i'm a bit concerned about being too blatant about it
19:12:17 <sri> karen: asking him for a quote will just end up with us talking about some pet annoyance he has.
19:12:23 <karen> why aday?
19:12:29 <karen> haha ok sri
19:12:46 <sri> karen: like last time.. but I am willing to try again
19:13:19 <sri> karen: we need to give him a 3.12 image for im to test
19:14:04 <sri> aday: so what features doyou feel is worth highlighting?
19:14:24 <karen> sri: should we try it again? were ahead on the image problem, no?
19:14:39 <aday> karen, not sure; i guess i prefer to be bit subtler when responding to those issues. if we say it in big letters it becomes a bit obvious why we've put it in
19:14:43 <aday> looks superficial
19:15:13 <aday> anyway, i think we agree in principle. it's just getting the wording right
19:15:16 <sri> karen: hopefully we will have images before hand, it's an item on teh release team's meeting (which I am attending..)
19:15:42 <aday> so i think one big question here is wayland
19:15:45 <sri> I think I understand what you mean, aday, "threading the needle" so to speak.
19:15:58 <aday> we had it as our top feature last time
19:16:04 <aday> do we want it at the top again?
19:16:22 <sri> I'm not sure..  Id ont' know how well fleshed out it is.
19:16:24 <aday> does it look boring to repeat the same thing? "we're still working on it"
19:16:29 <karen> aday: I like directly addressing criticism people have had, and so overtly and positively
19:16:33 <karen> otherwise people will miss it
19:16:47 <karen> I wonder if this is a cultural difference between us aday :D
19:16:57 <aday> ha
19:18:09 <bastianilso> hmm, I don't know about wayland
19:18:21 <karen> I wouldn't put it at the top again
19:18:22 <aday> sri, significant progress will have been made. there's still a question mark over whether you will be able to run an experimental wayland session
19:18:26 <karen> personally
19:18:28 <bastianilso> if we can word it in a way so that we mention the specific improvements (if they can be tried)
19:18:31 <bastianilso> that might work
19:18:49 <sri> considering that jasper is only now working on wayland+gnome-shell stuff and trying to put it together..
19:18:50 <bastianilso> but I also think it would be better to put something else on the top this time around
19:19:09 <sri> the hackfest we're having should help immensely there since Kristian and Jasper can work on that together with Owen.
19:19:15 <aday> sri, they're still pushing hard, indeed. there was another meeting about it today
19:19:16 <sri> but that's after the release.
19:19:19 <karen> maybe it should be lower down and more of a "progress continues to be made" type of thing
19:19:28 <bastianilso> aday: is the features listed supposed to be listed in the order you think they should be mentioned (ie. top to bottom)?
19:19:39 <sri> yeah, this is more of a "sorry folks, WiP"
19:19:40 <aday> i was hoping that we could have a "introducting wayland beta" item
19:19:41 <bastianilso> or is it random at this point?
19:20:01 <sri> I think we probably should not say much about wayland.
19:20:01 <aday> because that's kinda what it will (hopefully) be
19:20:10 <sri> it will havea  better impact next cycle.
19:20:22 <sri> not sure if media will notice us not saying much, dunno.
19:20:51 <bastianilso> hmm, I don't think it will have an impact unless we literally leave it out
19:21:17 <aday> we made a fuss about it last cycle; it might be a mistake to not talk about it. people might think it's gone off the boil
19:21:34 <aday> and it's a "bright future" item, which is good
19:21:44 <karen> yeah, agree aday
19:21:47 <sri> what specifically can we say about wayland?
19:22:02 <aday> sri, in terms of what has been done since 3.10?
19:22:05 <sri> we can at least tantalize them so taht they will look forward to the next release.
19:22:08 <sri> aday: yes.
19:22:18 <aday> sri, or what people can look forward to?
19:22:27 <sri> aday: maybe a little of both
19:22:42 <sri> I don't think we know what they can look forward to, right?
19:22:51 <sri> I would think that is still indeterminate.
19:23:21 <aday> long term it is vital. the initial switch probably won't be a big event for the UX
19:24:04 <sri> oh yeah, totally
19:24:12 <sri> the fun comes when we switcha nd we build on it.
19:24:28 <sri> that's where some cool shit starts happening :D
19:24:39 <karen> :D
19:24:46 <aday> but yeah, something future-facing would be good. although we already had a bit of that last time round - https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.10/
19:25:20 <sri> maybe something like "wayland will enable feature x!"
19:25:33 <sri> and add a mock up or something?
19:25:59 <aday> you can sell it in terms of security and privacy
19:26:03 <karen> is it not right to go with the "progress continues", along with a bullet point list? and ending with a forward looking statement?
19:26:39 <aday> karen, right, although if we have the ability to launch a full wayland session that would be more of a feature
19:26:46 <bastianilso> maybe a progress bar indicating how much we have progressed since 3.10
19:27:03 <bastianilso> just to set in perspective that we are reaching goal in the near future
19:27:15 <karen> that's true aday
19:27:49 <aday> any other features we should discuss?
19:28:07 <sri> what about the revamped videos?
19:28:11 * jjmarin is late, reading the log
19:28:25 <aday> sri, yeah i think that should be high on the list. it's pretty cool
19:28:50 <sri> what do you want to talk about with initial setup (which you have twice on piratepad)
19:29:30 <aday> oops!
19:29:49 <aday> well it's been overhauled, and the new design is based on user testing that intel paid for
19:29:56 <aday> so i think there's a good story thre
19:29:58 <sri> oh wait, really?
19:29:58 <aday> *there
19:29:59 <sri> that's great.
19:30:13 <sri> hmm... I think intel's marketing would be interested in that.
19:30:16 <sri> (more on that later)
19:30:32 <aday> see http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/initial-setup-reprise/
19:30:50 <bastianilso> that is very nice - sorry to go offtopic but is data from the user testing available somewhere ono the GNOME wiki, aday?
19:31:09 <aday> bastianilso, only my notes - https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/InitialSetup/UserTesting
19:31:26 <bastianilso> thank you
19:32:02 <aday> the initial setup feature could fit into the listening to feedback narrative that we discussed
19:32:24 <jjmarin> Will normal users be able to launch a full wayland session ?
19:32:52 <aday> jjmarin, we don't know yet
19:33:07 <aday> hopefully"
19:33:08 <aday> !
19:34:09 <aday> shall we move on, or is there anything else to discuss?
19:34:23 <aday> i'll let everyone know once writing has begun
19:34:37 * karen wonders what a "normal" user is like :)
19:34:38 <bastianilso> when will people be assigned to different items+
19:35:00 <bastianilso> (for writing the release notes that is)
19:36:07 <aday> i'm not really sure how useful that would be, to be honest. if people want to help map out the details, check for mistakes or map them out, that would be great though
19:36:22 <bastianilso> alright
19:36:25 <karen> sure aday, just let us know
19:36:34 <aday> they kinda need to have one voice, if you know what i mean
19:36:37 <sri> aday: it's kind of chaotic that way?  I mean it's worked in the past, but the work ends up mostly on your shoulders
19:36:51 <sri> ah yes, okay, that makes sense
19:36:57 <aday> yeah, more coordination and more editing that way
19:37:09 <aday> but people should definitely hack on them in the early stages
19:37:31 <aday> #topic press release
19:37:35 <aday> boo
19:37:40 <aday> why didn't it work?!
19:37:53 <aday> sri, are you the boss?
19:38:56 <sri> it worked :)
19:39:05 <sri> there is no feedback when it changes tpic strangely enough
19:39:13 <sri> #topic press release
19:39:13 <aday> ah it's the unix way
19:39:16 <sri> see?
19:39:22 <sri> it's kind of lame that way
19:39:45 <bastianilso> report as a bug maybe? :)
19:39:47 <jjmarin> I guess this topic is about quotations for the press release
19:39:54 <aday> right
19:40:42 <jjmarin> What about someone from Ubuntu GNOME ?
19:41:27 <sri> ugh I hate this part.
19:41:31 <sri> findign quotations
19:41:39 <karen> yeah
19:41:42 <karen> it's a pain
19:41:48 <karen> ubuntu gnome is a good suggestion
19:41:49 <karen> jjmarin,
19:41:50 <sri> I can ask Linus again..
19:41:55 <karen> may as well ask him
19:41:56 <karen> sri
19:42:08 <sri> ok
19:42:15 <sri> we need an image, he won't test it without one.
19:42:22 <sri> er he won't talk about it without one.
19:42:29 <sri> and then we'll make up a quote for him
19:42:49 <sri> we'll need some alternatives if it falls through.
19:42:51 <karen> it can just be something like I've been more and more satisfied with later versions, looking forward to seeing where things go
19:42:54 <karen> yeah let's not plan on it
19:43:00 <karen> it was stressful last time
19:43:15 <aday> this is who we've had in the past - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q2GcTR1MDa-XujUcAwCCDWrbeTtmB7hcdw1jF9xFNCY/edit#
19:43:19 <sri> well more like my eyeballs got tired from rolling my eyes :-)
19:43:22 <aday> sorry, i'll put it on the wiki later
19:43:39 <bastianilso> quotes for 3.12 in general or can it be for specific new features?
19:44:01 <aday> karen, could we get a quote from yahoo?
19:44:15 <karen> what about greg KH?
19:44:16 <jjmarin> aday +1
19:44:17 <karen> oh great idea aday
19:44:24 <karen> I will email and ask them
19:44:35 <bastianilso> perhaps a quote from red hat if they are planning/have moved to GNOME 3 in RHEL?
19:44:46 <karen> another good idea bastianilso
19:45:30 <jjmarin> yes, another good idea
19:45:33 <sri> yahoo would be cool
19:45:35 <aday> karen, could be a good opportunity to establish a closer relationship, too. maybe they'd like to talk to us more
19:45:39 <karen> there's also that new "OS" that sri linked us to, they could talk about us being the gold standard to build on
19:46:01 <jjmarin> numix people
19:46:02 <aday> karen, maybe... it's still not real
19:46:03 <sri> I want to have a conversation with them first.
19:46:06 <sri> what about endless mobile?
19:46:07 <karen> yeah
19:46:09 <karen> thats' a good point
19:46:12 <karen> what about endless?
19:46:27 <karen> we should also wait until there's something there too, right?
19:46:34 <bastianilso> maybe quotes from specific external developers who use GNOME technologies such as Yorba or similar - some exciting changes in 3.12 such as popovers and other improvements to the gtk toolkit
19:46:38 <aday> yeah, people don't know endless yet
19:46:38 <jjmarin> I think it is better when they release their product
19:46:39 * sri calls Elon Musk
19:46:56 <sri> yorba might be interesting, but It hink we've used them before.
19:47:01 <bastianilso> ah
19:47:20 <bastianilso> hmm, they are mentioned as 'potential' stakeholders to take contact to
19:47:23 <sri> Lawrence Lessig :)
19:47:40 <karen> lessig is such a mac user
19:47:43 <karen> it's crazy
19:47:46 <sri> karen: anybody in EFF?
19:47:50 <sri> the bum.
19:47:53 <karen> but I can happily contact him
19:47:56 <karen> haha
19:48:00 <karen> seth shoen
19:48:11 <karen> maybe?
19:48:12 <sri> okay, sounds like a good one.
19:48:36 <karen> ok, I'll ask
19:48:37 <bastianilso> ....free software foundation?
19:48:39 <karen> I have 2 action items
19:48:47 <karen> we had John Sullivan last time, bastianilso
19:48:48 <sri> I think we did Paul Cooper already?
19:48:49 <bastianilso> ah
19:49:01 <aday> sri, i don't remember that
19:49:08 <jjmarin> Scarlett Johansson or Joaquin Phoenix ?
19:49:11 <sri> no?
19:49:14 <karen> I have Seth/EFF and yahoo!
19:49:15 <karen> haha
19:49:23 <karen> and sri has linus
19:49:50 <sri> me and linus, I need a jazz piano song to go with it.
19:50:36 <sri> oh look, mclasen just sent a wayland status update!
19:50:37 <bastianilso> hehe
19:50:54 <aday> some of these seem a bit unreliable
19:51:03 <aday> it would be nice to have another name
19:51:04 <sri> linus is unreliable.
19:51:15 <aday> sri, we've tried before...
19:51:31 <sri> we treid before, but mostly because we can't get him to focus on teh quote..
19:51:44 <jjmarin> sri: if you be a able to make Linus say "I love GNOME" is good enough :-)
19:52:03 <sri> I don't think we can even get him to say "I Love Linux"
19:53:01 <bastianilso> ...would systemd team be of any interest to talk to in this case?
19:53:17 <jjmarin> I think Ubuntu GNOME is a good backup option
19:53:21 <sri> hmm.. I can see that wayland is not going to work on non-systemd systems
19:53:51 <aday> bastianilso, might not be so good in light of the debian init stuff
19:54:12 <bastianilso> sounds like i may or may not have missed out on some news
19:54:59 <karen> I agree that ubuntu gnome is a good backup option
19:55:04 <karen> I mean usually we have 2 outside quotes
19:55:07 <karen> and one GNOME person
19:55:19 <karen> who we can usually hit up somewhat last minute when we see how things are looking :)
19:55:30 <karen> so now we have 3 external people to ask
19:55:38 <karen> of which we only need 2
19:55:42 <aday> cool, that seems good to be going on with
19:55:57 <karen> EFF and yahoo! would be kind of cool
19:56:00 <sri> okay, so who are we going to contact?
19:56:01 <karen> outside of our usual
19:56:08 <aday> maybe denise dumas for red hat
19:56:19 <karen> oh denise is good too
19:56:23 <sri> how about Lennart for internal?
19:56:26 <karen> so we have 4 outside people we're asking
19:56:50 <jjmarin> Ryan Lortie could be good as well
19:57:02 <sri> okay, who wants to run through the list?
19:57:09 <karen> ok
19:57:17 <karen> so we've proposed for outsiders:
19:57:24 <karen> "outsiders"
19:57:29 <aday> heh
19:58:18 <karen> EFF (seth), yahoo! (maybe Arun), Linus, Red Hat (Denise)
19:58:35 <karen> with Ubuntu GNOME as a backup
19:58:42 <karen> did I miss any?
19:58:53 <sri> #info contact EFF(seth), yahoo! (maybe arun), Linus, Red Hat (Denise) and ubuntu GNOME as backup
19:59:05 <jjmarin> ups, it seems that Ubuntu GNOME 14.04 will release GNOME 3.10
19:59:11 <karen> for GNOME peeps: Lennart,Ryan so far, I also add Allan as the recent award winner :D
19:59:12 <jjmarin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/Alpha2/UbuntuGNOME
20:00:04 <karen> aday: is everyone properly informed at RH btw? :)
20:00:19 <nekohayo> aday, pong
20:00:36 <aday> karen, what about?!
20:00:42 <karen> about your award!
20:00:46 <aday> nekohayo, just inviting you to the meeting
20:00:52 <sri> haha
20:01:13 <aday> karen, oh! in desktop they are :)
20:01:22 <karen> :)
20:01:32 <aday> i don't think there has been a company-wide announcement though
20:01:36 <aday> which is obviously disappointing
20:01:47 <aday> ;)
20:02:06 <karen> heh
20:02:31 <karen> aday: has RH marketing been informed?
20:02:33 <aday> #topic press outreach
20:02:44 <aday> karen, no idea!
20:02:54 <aday> one thing we should do is contact members of the press
20:02:56 <karen> heh
20:03:03 <karen> ok, I'm going to talk to marina about this
20:03:10 <aday> (for the release, not my award!)
20:03:19 <jjmarin> I guess at least some UK magazines will be interested in interviewing you or at least they will publish the an article
20:03:26 <aday> karen, do we have an up to date list of press contacts?
20:03:39 <karen> yeah aday, or at least I have the list I emailed last time
20:03:55 <karen> I can share that in a private email
20:04:00 <aday> it might be a nice task for someone to update that list
20:04:03 <sri> I'm hoping that that new linux magazine linux voice will contact us.
20:04:16 <karen> I hope so sri since they used my quote to raise money :D
20:04:23 <sri> karen: doh
20:04:26 <aday> and if we can get the press release ready in time, we can send it out to them
20:04:44 <karen> excellent
20:05:28 <aday> ok well let's see about that
20:05:31 <sri> so who will be available for interviews?
20:05:44 <sri> I need to take some internal press training
20:05:59 <aday> sri, we could all do with some of that
20:06:33 <sri> yeah, it's worth to know how to talk to the press
20:06:59 <sri> okay, so any action items for this?
20:07:11 <aday> it needs a volunteer, i think!
20:08:27 <sri> umm.
20:08:36 <sri> I could do it after I do some press training
20:08:53 <karen> heh
20:08:54 <sri> I did an interview with intel marketing that mights how up in 01.org
20:09:10 <karen> why don't we see what the interviews are for?
20:09:16 <karen> the right person can depend on what it is
20:09:33 <karen> and sometimes the interviews are by email and then we can all help :D
20:09:55 <aday> right. i think we should offer people based on things we want to highlight
20:10:22 <sri> I would much prefer email
20:11:19 <aday> i can see the press being interested in wayland more than anything else to be honestn
20:11:27 <aday> there is a story there
20:12:36 <sri> hey, I need to run.. lunch time
20:12:39 <karen> it's hard to predict aday
20:12:44 <aday> maybe debarshi or hadess could talk about cloud integration?
20:12:45 <karen> ok sri, thanks for leading the meeting!
20:12:54 <aday> yep, thanks sri!
20:13:20 <sri> please talk about promotion leading up to release
20:13:29 <sri> bastianilso: is working on videos
20:13:35 <sri> and I want to make sur that is part of the plan
20:13:40 <karen> oh awesome!
20:13:54 <bastianilso> I sure am - me and sri had a meeting earlier this week
20:14:00 <bastianilso> I have one question in that regard as well
20:14:15 <aday> WAIT!
20:14:17 <aday> #topic videos
20:14:20 <aday> ah, that's better
20:14:21 <karen> hahaha
20:14:24 <bastianilso> hahahaha
20:14:33 <aday> bastianilso, you can speak now
20:14:38 <bastianilso> alrighty
20:14:53 <bastianilso> The idea is to have a couple of videos to release a few days before the release
20:15:15 <karen> that is excellent
20:15:21 <aday> yep, fantastic
20:15:32 <bastianilso> so far the plan is to release 3-4 videos in total: 1 main video outlining the 3.12 release and 2-3 in-depth going videos taking a specific application or feature and going into depth with that
20:16:04 <karen> if we have those it will be the best. release. evar.
20:16:28 <bastianilso> the main video will feature some cutting and be more fast paced than the rest as it is merely scratching the surface of everything that is 3.12
20:16:50 <aday> bastianilso, you should talk to jimmac
20:17:07 <aday> i'm sure he could chip in
20:17:08 <bastianilso> while the others will more of a screencast session with voice-over explaining the ideas and the usage on specific applications
20:17:17 <bastianilso> aday: good to hear that, I've noted that down
20:17:30 <aday> voice overs are hard
20:17:37 <aday> have you thought about subtitles?
20:17:39 <karen> bastianilso: if you need a voice to be voiced over I can lend mine
20:18:00 <jjmarin> I was going to suggest karen voice :-)
20:18:03 <bastianilso> oh yes they sure are - perhaps text overlays might be a better approach but I want to get my hands dirty with this and try first :-)
20:18:04 <karen> only if it's extra helpful though
20:18:06 <karen> haha
20:18:17 <bastianilso> karen: that would be great - noted :)
20:18:39 <karen> someone did once tell me that I was "the sexiest voice in free software podcasting", so you know, I'm a celebrity
20:18:44 <karen> it was very bizarre
20:18:55 <bastianilso> one thing to consider: should we also cover features targeting developers in such videos?
20:18:58 <jjmarin> subtitles are good for translating the videos
20:19:22 <bastianilso> karen: do you have access to a good microhpone by any chance?
20:19:26 <aday> bastianilso, a demo for using popovers could be neat
20:19:28 <karen> yes bastianilso
20:19:31 <aday> for developers i mean
20:19:36 <aday> jjmarin, right
20:19:36 <karen> I am married to a grammy nominated recording engineer
20:19:53 <karen> :D
20:20:00 <bastianilso> karen: convenient! :D
20:20:03 <karen> on the flip side, I may have to use proprietary software to record with the fancy ones though we're working on it
20:20:15 <aday> bastianilso, have you seen the getting started videos? they have translatable subtitles
20:21:06 <bastianilso> aday: oh, that is nice. I am not sure exactly which you are referring to by 'getting started videos', could you link?
20:21:07 <jjmarin> well, it would nice to have a video with sound under supervision of a grammy nominated recording engineer
20:21:09 <aday> and we can host them on library web. could even make them a part of the release notes if it works out
20:21:41 <aday> bastianilso, https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/getting-started.html.en
20:22:10 <bastianilso> aday: ah, great
20:22:40 <aday> anyway, it's worth considering
20:22:47 <bastianilso> well, my initial consideration in regards to subtitles was to use the *.srt format as that would be plain text and is compatible with fx. youtube if we plan to post these on the GNOME 3 channel
20:23:04 <bastianilso> am open to other distribution ideas though!
20:23:18 <aday> bastianilso, yeah we've used youtube in the past too
20:23:45 <aday> jimmac or andreasn might have some advice there
20:24:25 <bastianilso> aday: nice to hear, I'll have a talk with them then
20:24:44 <aday> shall we wrap things up? i need to take a break
20:24:49 <bastianilso> sri also convinced me to use PiTiVi for editing so I might give that a try
20:24:58 <bastianilso> but will fallback to Blender in dire situations
20:25:49 <aday> good luck bastianilso
20:25:51 <aday> :)
20:26:03 <aday> alright, let's stop this so i can eat
20:26:07 <aday> #endmeeting